Exaggerated apophaticism

Hi Freddy!
 
Have you ever just sat down wrote down the questions you want answered?
 
 
Sometimes....it helps.....with circling thoughts....
 
What happens when you receive an answer? To one of these questions?
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Is this really an emergency?  Is there an emergency? 
Are you creating a emergency where there IS none?
Physically what are you feeling...Mentally what are you feeling?
 
Take your example of your experience...
Your sitting on a bus....you've just been to this sacred place and witnessed this woman and people praying......
 
What are you trying to discern...judge?
 
All is Well right then and there!
 
Like there is nothing hidden from you.....it is what it is.
 
I am blessed right now....all is well.
 
You don't have to be anything else right now.
 
You are ok right now.
 
Have you ever experienced that?
 
No what if's in your way....No I don't know enoughs right now....No need to do anything just right now but be me.....No sense that its not enough....or something undone or even needs to be resolved right now....or some unresolved thing is making what is right now more or less of anything of what is right now. No pressing need for you to do or be....except experience where you are and let go and not question it....
 
Is it even OK not to be in questioning mode?
 
Where everything is just OK? You can just relax....for one minute.
Even if you have an unanswered question?
 
For anxiety....is very interesting....you see?
 
Does it help you to get from point A to B?
 
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I am not saying to let go of everything all the time....
Just give yourself permission to be ok where you are from time to time.
 
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It will come to you...all that you need to know...and do.
 
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I don't know if any of that helps you...especially in the circling, everyone I know does this thing.....
 
Its kind of like reminding yourself what is truly critical? Right now to me... and gaining of perspective of peace within exploration of life.
 
Like in tag when your playing this game...there is a base...a place that's safe.
Period....
 
 

Grateful to be here!
What a gift and connection builder!
Love and Gratitude,
Love who You Are

For anxiety....is very interesting....you see? Does it help you to get from point A to B?

 
I do like that!
 
It is so hard just to be content in the moment....acceptance of what is.
 
Jude

Love is the only way

Dear Diane and Jude,
 
Thank you. I understand what you mean. Everyday I try in yoga or meditation to be with or just sit down with the pain, to enter into it (see: http://www.robertmasters.com/Writing_Section/books.htm !!), but I notice several things. This day and the day before, the pain in my chest has still increased! Is it because of my yoga practice, is it because of the uncertainty related to the many repetitions for the play I am in next Friday, Saturday and Sunday...? I notice when I am alone that the pain is still  harder to bear. But it is so unpredictable! Yesterday during repetition I could'n relax for one moment!
And when I am mentally active as now at work, it is there! A mental blockage? An emotional blockage? I have tried Sedona and other methods...
And I have pondered over and over this acceptance of and surrender to what is, but is it right to say that everyting is ok as it is? Why is there therapy in order to cope with and integrate unresolved issues if everything is allright. This relation of psychology and spirituality is a complex thing.
Some people have always said to me that it is possible to turn the switch immediately, at this moment in a movement of letting go and surrender.
I understand that the thing you fight against or resist tends to grow, but what to do with all these overwhelming thoughts and emotions and pain at the moment itself when I meet for instance my father or when I am alone.
Many times this pain changes, but it feels like a blocked energy that doesn't go away. Does it have to go away, you can ask. Yes, I would live more fully, I would answer!
 
Greetings,
Fred   

What Jude and Diane have said dear Fred,
is all very wise . . .
"It will come to you...all that you need to know...and do."
sometimes
it is important to go beyond thinking
with love . . .
sparrow

everything counts... ♥

http://shalomplace.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/18910625/m/95810606
 
Fred

Yes Fred . . . Yes!

everything counts... ♥

Hi Freddy,
 
Thanks for the link.....great discussion.
 
I wish for you peace and love.....a hug from Mother Mary.....and embrace you can always draw from in times of trouble or just whenever.....for its heavenly.
 
 

Grateful to be here!
What a gift and connection builder!
Love and Gratitude,
Love who You Are

Why is there therapy in order to cope with and integrate unresolved issues if everything is allright. This relation of psychology and spirituality is a complex thing.

 
Fred, I think this is about accepting what is, as it is right now. That doesn't mean it has to stay as it is. Put simply, you could say accepting yourself just as you are...warts and all, and just as you are right now. This acceptance makes room for more natural (not forced) change.
Yes it is all very complex, but then, so are we!
 
I'm not a doctor and I wouldn't presume to know anything about your condition, but as a Healer I see your chest pain as an emotional blockage in the solar plexus Chakra. As a Healer I have found many people, and mainly men, with this blockage, and it stops them from allowing the natural energy for healthy life from its normal flow around the body. The solar plexus is associated with the last chakra connected to the physical body. This is the link between our physical bodies and our spiritual bodies...heart (unconditional love for ourselves and others), brow (intuition) and the crown chakra (our connection to the divine energy essential for life) Every living thing has this energy in and around it and without it would not be alive. We cause blockages by our thoughts and behaviour, and our life challenges. A blockage just below our hearts is understandable because if we allowed ourselves into our hearts we would feel emotional pain.
 
I'm sure you know that the solar plexus and diaphragm are what keep us breathing.
 
With Love,
Jude

Love is the only way

This acceptance makes room for more natural (not forced) change.

 
Jude,
 
That is so true....it takes aways the internal battle that sometimes exists inside of us....the feed the right wolf....from the infamous Indian Quote.  Often times we exclude something from the framework that we already are naturally. We cause undue stress inside of us....and sometimes with others. We can basically be searching for what already is....just is within. It is already neatly given as a gift within being alive. We humans basically make complex what already is a miracle. Its like when you let go of something sometimes all of sudden when you stop trying so hard the relief comes...the resistence fades away and in that moment you feel a sense of peace. And you begin to see, feel, sense and ease within the flow of whatever you are being challenged in. You see you can't control x but you can control your response or be natural in your response to it.
Just be who you are in it...some days you may be more of something like courageous in life. Other days you may be resting...and not so courageous and its ok.  You do what you can each day....in what ever your area of focus is....its like when you are in deep study of some specific area in life....you gain all kinds of insights and knowledge in this area. Then within your life you give this away to others you engage with...and share it. It gets built and built.....on or seems irrelevant now...or has changed. Your spirtuality is in its own progression all the time...you can take time to focus or be aware of it or not. But it still is. Your spirit has not flown off and left you....it's still there.  It hasn't abandon you....you can choose to think this....but it doesn't make it true spiritually.
 
It's like taking this philosophy of spirtuality as a hard thing to get to....
That somehow God arrange this complicated maze you must go through to be WHOLE and in perfect sinc withyour own God given spirit????
 
God made man...and so he created these blocks in his way to attain symbiosis within his self....????
 
Or is man that decided the way is so blocked from....spirit.
 
A wise man would/might say ....what here?
 
Live in kindness you are kindness....
IT IS SIMPLE....
God is Simple!
 
Why not allow some ease to exist within it??
Or the words Just be with it....
All is well.
 
Maybe you can find it....right where it is and always is.
 
And begin to make sense of all the wise words and lives around you continually pointing to this one fact.
 
There is something great and wise when you follow the wisdom of someone who has lived it...been there.  And imparts wisdom to you.
 
There is nothing new under the sun.....yes innovations keep coming but spirtuality/ spirit/ connection to God  is unchangeable.....if you believe in God.
In what ever form you may practise...
 
So we need to cultivate and till it along within ourselves and others if we  choose so to be that. Our own unique spiritual identity....IS.  The ebb and flow of it can be like a river....but it IS. It is ever constant within us....as the current can be strong and slow and all that is natural to our human expression of it.
  
 

Grateful to be here!
What a gift and connection builder!
Love and Gratitude,
Love who You Are

 Dear Jude,
 
Thanks for the post. yes, I suppose this is an emotional blockage in the solar plexus chakra. Yesterday evening this was quite clear to me during the repetition. It's a tiring week with all these repetitions. I have been reading a lot on chakras before (Anodea Judith). But the practices she proposed in her book didn't help me further. I guess this a deep-rooted issue. I have protected myself against this emotional pain and built a firm armour around my heart.
I notice that the yoga increases the pain at the moment, because of changes that are happening in the body. I continue with it, but very slowly. And I keep thinking that this Pesso therapy (individual and in group) can be very helpful.
 
Greetings,
Fred 

I guess this a deep-rooted issue. I have protected myself against this emotional pain and built a firm armour around my heart.

 
Dear Fred, this is EXACTLY what we do!! In my experience as a Healer, it is harder to release this blockage in men, who have grown up thinking they have to be emotionally strong and live from their heads rather than their hearts. Eventually this blockage causes physical changes in the body, like heart and chest  problems, which more men suffer from than women.
If you can't get to a Spiritual Healer yourself, you could visualize, during Yoga relaxation perhaps, a warm yellow light in the solar plexus area. I visualize a large sunflower slowly opening its petals. Once the tightness has eased in the solar plexus, then you can go on to open your heart. Here the colour is emerald green with a soft pink heart centre for unconditional love for yourself first, and then all others. For the pink, I imagine a lotus blossom or pink water lily gently opening up. You could even visualize the 'armour' cracking open and falling away.
I would strongly recommend a Spiritual Healer. Most of them are coming from a Christian viewpoint.
Yes, keep doing gentle Yoga. I'm sure it's already helping.
 
Blessings,
Jude

Love is the only way

Dear Jude,
 
It seems as if I have always been sinking  different wells (is this English?) on different places, gling from one to another, without getting to the deep source within itself. So many teachings, so many teachers, so many therapies!
Now I have to stay with few things or only one and be patient! My megalomania (?) stems from those feelings of insecurity. I want to grasp everything (see the title of one of Ken Wilber's books, hm...) but life is uncontrolable.
About spiritual healing: this pesso therapist seems to be very down-to-earth as are other people I corresponded with. Of course this chakra work and other energetic work has also to do with basic needs, but is spiritual healing really attached to this down-to-earth Pesso therapy or other body oriented work? I have had my reiki healers, but this didn't help me either!
The link between (psycho- and other) therapy and this energetic work and even yoga is not clear to my mind. Where does psychology stop and spiritual work come in?
 
PAX,
Fred
 
 

Dear Jude,
 
Still this.
I hope that this extreme and fearful pain of the last days is after all a good sign.
I cry it out... I need my rest and enough time to be with myself and this is almost impossible this week. Please pray for me for strength. Very hard work!!!
Fred
 

And maybe I have to do my yoga only once a day and not twice. I think that pranayama, if not done properly, can be harmful...
Fred

Yes indeed dear Fred . . .
life is uncontrollable.
We must be soft and flexible,
so that we can flow with the tides
rather than fight them.
There is a story . . .
I have no idea where this quote comes from.
I originally heard in in an Asian context . . .
Quote:
"The bamboo and the oak tree employ two different strategies to survive. The strategy of the oak is to grow very solid and strong to withstand the force of the wind. The strategy of the bamboo is to stay flexible and bend before the force of the wind. The wind, in this analogy, is really a symbol for the forces of change. The oak uses its solidity to resist change.The bamboo uses its flexibility to bend with change. A few years ago, a great hurricane blew across southern Florida—Hurricane Andrew. Trees were uprooted. Houses were blown down. The news cameras panned over the area to show the devastation. Every palm, palmetto, and oak tree had been leveled, but the camera showed one small clump of bamboo that had survived. The oak trees, even with their massive strength, didn’t survive. The bamboo did. The flexible strength survived; the inflexible strength perished. It is a lesson. In a world where things are changing rapidly, flexibility is a better survival strategy than force. Individual consciousness can take on either the qualities of the oak or the qualities of the bamboo. It can be empty and flexible, or it can be solid and unbending. In most cases, it starts out flexible and then hardens over time."
 
but I think you get the point
with love . . .
sparrow

everything counts... ♥

Where does psychology stop and spiritual work come in?

 
It doesn't.......everything is Spiritual in origin.
 
I think with Yoga it's the body/mind balancing that is the very core of its value. that's why it takes a long time and much practise.
 
I would agree....not too much at a time. Yoga should be tailored to your needs and abilities, and technique built up slowly. If you wish to do it twice a day, I would suggest gentle asanas in the evening and more strenuous ones in the morning.
The breathing should accompany each asana. As a general rule you would breathe in when coming up or expanding, and breathe out when bending down or contracting. Personally I see the breath work done this way as more important than doing it seperately.
 
Sparrow, the story of the oak and the bamboo is so true. I think I am more of an oak myself.

Love is the only way

Thanks for the oak and bamboo story!
It sounds Taoist-like.
I am so afraid I need help (which is probably the case) that it is difficult to quietly stay with myself right now. I have to lie down and I can't.
 
Phil wrote me today:
 
Fred, I think you'd like some of the books of John Powell, S.J.
- Fully Human, Fully Alive
- The Christian Vision
- Happiness is an Inside Job
He's good on psychology and Christian spirituality; not much about the desert fathers, however. 
Good books!
Peace, Phil

But then I read this (I have been at a boarding school with pedophile priests myself!): http://www.aboms.com/archives/009628.html 
 
Fred

Hi Fred,Jude, and Liliwings,
 
I love the analogy of the bamboo and the oak trees, Liliwings.
 
Yoga is really designed to help all the body become aligned. So many of the asanas are about opening the heart. As you practice it you will learn alot about your self and get a clearer picture about what you need to work on. It works on many parts of the chakra system....nadi channels etc. It teaches you to open and close certain systems in the body...and gain strength and knowledge about your own body and spirit. Sometimes as you are working through the postures and then entering Savasana at the end people can become quite emotional as they are releasing repressed or blocked things they have been holding onto that no longer serve them now. Your self awareness of your own body,spirit and mind will be more sensitive and aware of so you can make better choices for your self.
 
I am so glad you are working in this, Fred. I think it will help you find what can work for you in a lot of areas in your life. It will give you tools for getting into a peaceful state...and also a peaceful energetic state. It will empower you to have abilities to respond to your own internal world and free  you up from certain stresses that your body, mind and spirit has been giving you signs that need attention.
 
When your body has been in a state of anxiety lets pick for an example...it sends all different chemical responses to kick in adrenalin etc...your fight or flight responses kick in....this is your sympathetic nerve responses that are in a constant of fluctuation. Our body has then a mechanism that restores our self to homostasis....Yoga helps us to gain awareness of these...and also gives us a new ability to restore homostasis within.
 
The meditation work during yoga asanas helps us with the mind, body and spirit connections....I guess a good word to use could be blend them in more harmony. Which is something you have expressed a deep desire to be more integrated in mind and spirit.
 
Our body has different patterns ingrained and some are beneficial and some we need to work through that may be hurting us just from being held in anxiety too much as an example. So learning techniques to help us release body patterns is an important part of the process.
 
Another beautiful part of yoga is life (spirit) honoring....I love the greeting of Namaste the light in me honors the light in you. You  hold yourself in respect and hold high regard for another. Which in turn helps one to acceptance of self and others...it is quite beautiful to practise each day. It helps with balancing one self and also  as the practise advances go deeper in. It helps us become more flexible in body, mind and spirit. And also it strengthens us too in many ways. It helps us to be more resilient each day of life.
 
Peace, Love and Joy,
Diane

Grateful to be here!
What a gift and connection builder!
Love and Gratitude,
Love who You Are

Dear Fred,
I can understand your fear regarding the books of John Powell and you are right to go with your feeling of reluctance.
Don't rush to move forward, let the Yoga guide you. For now just be with that.
You have done a lot of searching and reading. Maybe now is the right time to stand still. Be with how you are and where you are now. It will help to relax you in body and spirit.
The constant searching can be very stressful. Slow down!
 
Blessings,
Jude

Love is the only way

While we are talking of slowing down, you could go further and slow down your Yoga practise....make a meditation of each asana.
Just a thought.
 
Jude

Love is the only way