Disorders (Full Version)

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bernie -> Disorders (4/19/2008 4:04:24 AM)

Those who're mood-conduct disordered can be very challenging and stressful. For instance, comorbid or co-occurring disorders often are deeply intertwined and are so difficult to cure or rehabilitate, esp. if there has never been a better place to return to... I.e., There is no earlier condition of being responsible to which to restore him. He never learned the ways of getting along in this world that most of us learned as children. Dr. Samenow's Inside the Criminal Mind who's done some highly significant research on this has discovered that the only way to produce positive change w/ these individuals (whom are generally irreversible, thus the high incidence of recidivism or relapse) is to reach them when they're in crisis and, therefore, are  more vulnerable or receptive to genuinely change at the depths.

Thus, as Samenow suggests, 'habilitation' can be made when they're amenable to transform their core beliefs toward developing fundamental changes in their thinking and behavior. At such times, straightening out has its strongest appeal. Even when not incarcerated, the criminal has periods when he becomes fed up with himself and wants to straighten out and start a new life. He is sick of running, looking over his shoulder, and disappointing and injuring those who care for him. He has neglected and exploited his family as well as many others.

Of course, in many cases meds may be effective in treating anxiety and depression, etc., though most often these individuals will, most likely, self-medicate & self-destruct themselves by resorting to alcohol & other drugs (AODs), compounding the problem w/ addictions to try and feel better. Psychopathic deviancy, the criminal mind, or antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is, therefore, very resistant to change and has such an enormous toll in societies...

As Samenow concludes in his seminal work: Will society effectively utilize its resources to help criminals become responsible, or will it continue to throw billions of dollars into human warehouses or down the drain into well-intentioned, but misguided, partial solutions that turn out not to be solutions at all?

 



sharon -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 8:12:39 AM)

I am one of many people who have to take medication for depression and yes I do self medicate with alcohol to get through the day and no I don't use illegal drugs. So I am one of those as you say is self destructing themselves so I imagine you think I am also a drain on society and I have never been in trouble with the police. Thanks I feel a whole lot better about myself now why I had to come on here and get upset I don't know



Hildegard -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 8:44:52 AM)

Dear Sharon, please, don't take personally what Bernie writes in general. You have been doing what you have been able to do. You know it isn't perfect, and NONE of us is perfect, but it is the best you can do at this time. Don't be discouraged by posts that are not intended for you personally. YOU ARE NOT A DRAIN ON SOCIETY! If you find something that is a downer for you just omit reading it. Unfortunately, when someone posts something they can't  always foresee how it is received by different people. I don't believe anyone here intentionally wants to hurt someone else.

Much love and warm hugs as always,
Edda



buttington -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 11:09:22 AM)

Bernie, you make people who suffer from depression and other mental illness sound like aliens!!!!!!!!!

I have 2 very dear friends who suffer from depression and they are the most normal, sweetest and kindest people I have ever known.

We all suffer occasionally and need positive support. Anyway, what's (or who) is normal?

Jude



joeharmony -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 11:21:28 AM)

quote:

Dr. Samenow's Inside the Criminal Mind who's done some highly significant research on this has discovered that the only way to produce positive change w/ these individuals (whom are generally irreversible, thus the high incidence of recidivism or relapse)


These Individuls who (get your grammar right) are "generally irreversible" are  human beings.  Some didn't have the benefit of education or money.  Some had these and are criminals anyway.  Some are psychopaths who have no regard for life.  Some see politicians swilling alcohol and mouthing off about how terrible drugs are.  You have as much a "criminal mind" as any other person - "There but for the grace of God go I".  Spend a year inside and then see how you emerge.  And the biggest criminals run the biggest companies and are destroying our planet, and deciding to send young men and women to die to protect the supply of oil.

Joe



 



joeharmony -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 11:30:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bernie

Of course, in many cases meds may be effective in treating anxiety and depression, etc., though most often these individuals will, most likely, self-medicate & self-destruct themselves by resorting to alcohol & other drugs (AODs), compounding the problem w/ addictions to try and feel better. Psychopathic deviancy, the criminal mind, or antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is, therefore, very resistant to change and has such an enormous toll in societies...



There are mood disorders, and yes some people self medicate.  Most respond well to a variety of treatments.
Other people use lots of big words and pontificle statements to hide a basic inability to interact empathically and effectively with others.  As the Tao says: "The emptiest vessels make the most noise".

Joe



J1937 -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 11:53:30 AM)

Never have we performed an act more God-like than when we bring sunshine to hearts that are dark and desolate.
~ James Gibbons

Having received this from a friend I had thought to post it on the Quotes-thread - but I think it fits in here right now.

Juliana
_____________________________
Speak Peace in a World of Conflict



bernie -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 12:04:46 PM)

Ma'am, it's most apropos to take the appropriate meds (pharmacotherapy) for mood disorders per se, e.g., for depression, anxiety, etc., post-having been evaluated & prescribed by a psychiatrist esp., please don't confuse or overreact, it's not necessarily for psychosis (hallucinations) or criminality (those whom are destructive to others). But for a simple mood disorder which needs to be identified & treated in order to be better stabilized biochemically, so you won't need to take alcohol, etc., which could, if overdone, produce a toxic interaction (OD) w/ psychotropics. To abuse or depend on alcohol or illicit drugs, of course, brings serious health & legal consequences. There are legions of social, responsible drinkers who're healthy and fullly functioning.

Meds have to be carefully monitored in order for them to have optimal results. At first it may be trial-&-error till you find the right meds & dosage for you & continue taking even after you feel better or as your physician advises. The very fact that you're aware and concerned is highly commendable and therapeutic. Mood disorders (esp. dysthymia, low-grade but debilitaing depression) are rampant and pandemic like the common cold. Don't fret, it's perfectly normal to have problems - we all do! Ultimately, it's how you creatively cope & transcend... 



sharon -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 12:45:24 PM)

I have a simple mood disorder do I are you a doctor. You don't know me or know what I go through every day because of depression. And for saying that depression is rampant and pandemic like the common cold whats that about depression isn't contagious like the cold. And I don't need a lecture about alcohol either yes I do abuse it and I shouldn't but since you don't know me who gives you the right to judge. And I also know about the dangers of overdoses since I've done that and have health problems because of it. I do know about medication since I have been on meds a long time. I am so angry right now why I feel the need to justify myself to you I don't know. I have depression and I don't like having it but I have its bad enough dealing with the stigma of a mental illness without having to see negative things about it on here you don't live my life so please don't judge me. I thought this was a friendly supportive place



bernie -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 12:58:43 PM)

You're so right - I'm OK you're OK, God bless us all! Amen, verily, verily, ad infinitum... 



buttington -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 1:08:12 PM)

Dear Sharon,
I think we all feel the anger you are feeling. Yes, we are supportive of you, as you are of us. Bernie feels the need to educate us.[;)]

Bless you, calm down now[:D] It's not worth it.

Lots of Love, Jude



buttington -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 1:19:05 PM)

Joe, well said, all of it. 

Love Jude



buttington -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 1:23:14 PM)

Sunrise over a calm sea.
[image]http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/content/images/2006/08/02/calm_sea_memory_470x353.jpg[/image]



J1937 -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 1:24:47 PM)

Dear Sharon,

Jude has expressed what I feel, too. You know your friends who love you, don´t you?

Juliana
_____________________________
Speak Peace in a World of Conflict



Hildegard -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 1:37:42 PM)

Dear Sharon, this IS a supportive place. Please, don't let one person's posts outweigh all the many others you have received. I think sometimes people have trouble expressing themselves in a supportive way, when they think they are. I am deeply sorry that you feel so angry and judged, as well as disappointed. You have a long history with several people in the forum, people who love you and want to support you. Try to take comfort in this.

With much love,
Edda



bernie -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 2:31:12 PM)

As Jesus of Nazareth said, 'Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.'
 
Adversities offer more opportunities for soul growth than easy or opulent times. Our fiber is strengthened by the crosses that we have to bear, and even as we overcome these hurdles we are growing and flowering. If we, through gallant exercise of our talents and character, surmount these obstacles, the road ahead should be a welcome one.
 
Ruth Montgomery, Strangers Among Us
 
Ultimately faith is the only key to the universe. The final meaning of human existence, and the answer to questions on which all our happiness depends cannot be found in any other way... In this greatest perfection of faith the infinite God Himself becomes the Light of the darkened soul and possesses it entirely with His Truth. And at this inexplicable moment the deepest night becomes day and faith turns into understanding.
 
Thos. Merton, Seeds of Contemplation



bernie -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 8:01:04 PM)

Note: Having  personally worked w/ criminals, BOP Program, etc., some of society's healthiest specimens are those whom have been miraculously transformed in prison, yes, by the Holy Spirit; it even occurs on Death Row. It is never too late to be saved & to be reborn. Each of us has to find their unique way despite all the agony, chaos, & horror that too often engulfs us.



joeharmony -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 8:15:55 PM)



Mark Twain: 
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Robert Greenleaf:
Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much.
Sam Rayburn:
No one has a finer command of language than the person who keeps his mouth shut.



joeharmony -> RE: Disorders (4/19/2008 8:32:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bernie
You're so right - I'm OK you're OK, God bless us all! Amen, verily, verily, ad infinitum... 


Bernie
This is so arrogant and paternalistic and insulting.
To quote Thumper in Bamby:  "If ya can't find anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".


quote:

ORIGINAL: bernie
Note: Having  personally worked w/ criminals, BOP Program, etc.,


And how did they react to pontification and verbosity?  Because that seems to be your only way of expressing yourself.
I'd like to see some I-statements from you, Bernie...  "I feel ........" "I did .......".
Who is the real Bernie?



bernie -> RE: Disorders (4/20/2008 12:53:29 AM)

Doesn't it seem logical, sane, that to reflect any semblance of order in the world (individual, domestic, international) one must first face the herculean dilemmas of our anxiety-ridden age inwardly, internally; and respond, rejoice with the overtones, the music of the spheres, of all humanity as a world within a world, a cosmos within a cosmos - the ever-expanding Universe ad infinitum...

If there be righteousness in the heart, there
will be beauty in the character.
If there be beauty in the character, there
will be harmony in the home.
If there be harmony in the home, there
will be order in the nation.
If there be order in the nation, there
will be peace in the world.
- (Confucius)
 
At the time of his untimely, accidental death, Father Merton was in the Far East in the process of getting a firsthand account of what the Buddhists, Hindus, mystics and other Asian faiths could teach him in respect to the varieties of the religious, unifying experience that embraces all mankind and makes man man.
 
Into the bosom of the one great sea
Flow streams that come from hills on every side.
Their names are various as their springs.
And thus in every land do men bow down
To one great God, though known by many names.
- (from an Indian folk song)
 
Now, back to Merton et al., to bring all this into better perspective...the greatest bliss, the greatest joy comes from the contemplative life, the artist's maxim: 'A thing of beauty is a joy forever!', which is in essence, the creation, the reification of a world, a cosmos of peace, good will, and creative harmony that encompasses ever-enlarging circles...
 
Mine are the hills and the mountains are mine.
Mine are the just and the sinners are mine.
The nations are mine. The people are mine.
The angels are mine. The Mother of God is mine.
- And God Himself is mine and for me.
Because Christ is mine and all for me!
- ( St. John of the Cross)
 
 



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