Integration, Unification... (Full Version)

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bernie -> Integration, Unification... (4/26/2008 1:59:24 AM)

There is a personal integration process which has very definite antecedents; there are, indeed, certain karmic forces drawing us in particular directions. And these determinants will shape and bring into being our destiny, our fate.

The dark wood... Often, though not invariably, the individuation process starts with a profound inward turning of psychic energy. The former vivid interest in people and events vanishes. The meaning goes out of life and one is left stranded. This, at best, is an unpleasant experience. It may be a terrifying one. For the psychic energy is not lost. It has gone into the unconscious, is at large in the inner world. The archetypal images are awakened, and the man, unless he is aware of what is happening, is likely at times to have doubts of his sanity... Dante, in the opening lines of his great work, describes such an experience:
 
In the midway of this our mortal life,
I found me in a gloomy wood, astray 
Gone from the path direct...
 
...Toynbee derives this hypothesis (withdrawal-and-return) from his reading of universal history. At the same time as he was assembling the comprehensive data on which it is based, Jung, in complete independence, was working out the psychological means by which the withdrawal-and-return can be made. And while Jung and Toynbee were thus approaching the problem from opposite ends - Jung from the depths of the individual psyche, Toynbee from a case-study of all the civilizations of which we have record - Eliot was personally making the experiment and expressing it in the greatest poetry of the age...the point at which these three approaches meet is in the direct realization of what Toynbee calls a 'different spiritual dimension' interpenetrating life.
- (P.W. Martin, Experiment in Depth)
 
Fortunately, it is becoming more and more obvious that there is something seminal, significant, and exciting emerging in our country and the world in that we are realizing that the meaning of life and true progress lies in helping others, in giving oneself to others, in a devotion to a calling beyond one's self (metaneeds)...which is without exception the key to self-actualization. (In fact, all those not committed to metaneeds - over and above the basic needs - fall prey to meaninglessness or existential vacuum.)
 
Whosoever would save his life shall lose it, and whosoever shall lose his life for My sake and the Gospels shall save it.
 
The reason we are generally playing games is definitely because we are asleep. Indeed, we're not awake, but are leading lives of waking-sleep which is also a main theme in the Bible - "awake," "death," "rebirth," all familiar terms but so terribly difficult to grasp because they're only really understood experientially.
 
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. -  John 11:25, 26
 
The metanoia to which the gospel summons us demands that we examine our own personal lives as well as the injustices and  contradictions in the various institutions to which we belong, be they political, economic, educational, ecclesiastical, or whatever... What people who stress the conversion to Jesus as their personal savior fail to see that the evil in society has a twofold root, in the sinful hearts of men and in institutionalized injustices, and that this evil can only be overcome by a movement that includes social change...peace can not be purchased, it is not for sale; peace has to be lived. And I can't live my peace without commitment to men, and my commitment to men can't exist without their liberation, and their liberation can't exist without the final transformation of the structures that are dehumanizing them.
 
- (Excerpts from Gregory Baum, "Critical Theology" and Paulo Freire "Conscientisation," in Walter E. Conn, Ed., Conversion, Perspectives on Personal and Social Transformation)
 
 




buttington -> RE: Integration, Unification... (4/26/2008 6:00:38 AM)

We are all capable of changing our lives, futures and future history at any time. We are not victims of karma. Karma itself can be changed.

Nor are we (or a good many of us) still asleep. Seeing the Light and moving towards it, is actually in progress right now.

Today we create our tomorrow.

Jude




Angelmum_2000 -> RE: Integration, Unification... (4/27/2008 5:05:00 AM)

Just wanted to say (my own quote and truism for me)

"I dont believe in Karma. I believe in forgiveness."
Maria Zollo. 
Copyright 2005 All rights reserved.




buttington -> RE: Integration, Unification... (4/27/2008 9:39:37 AM)

Angelmum, I just Love your signature. That's truly inspiring.

Love Jude




bernie -> RE: Integration, Unification... (4/27/2008 12:32:30 PM)

Ma'am, may this citation from Gina Cerminara, Ph.D., Many Mansions: "The Edgar Cayce Story", possibly help clarify this:

...sin and suffering have an exact cause-and-effect relationship, even though the point of origin of the sin may be hidden from view...it is essential to know the meaning of the word karma because this word is the only one that expresses the sin-suffering causal relationship. Karma is a  Sanskrit word literally meaning action; in philosophic  thought, however, it has come to mean the law of cause and effect, or action and reaction, to which all human conduct is subject. Emerson, who was steeped in the Brahmic philosophy of India, referred to this concept as the law of compensation. Christ formulated it very concisely when He said, 'Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.' Newton's third law of motion, namely that evey action has its reaction which is equal and opposite, applies as much to the moral law as to the law of physics... But above all, the Cayce readings (life readings) achieve a synthesis between science and religion. They do so by showing that the moral world is subject to laws of cause and effect as precise as those that govern the physical world. Human suffering they make clear, is due not merely to materialistic mischance, but rather to errors of conduct and thinking; the inequalities of human birth and human capacity do not arise from the capriciousness of the Creator or the blind mechanism of heredity, they arise from merits and demerits of past-life behavior. All pain and all limitations have an educative purpose; deformities and afflictions are of moral origin; and all man's agonies are lessons in a long-term school for wisdom and perfection. 
 
(Many Mansions is Dr. Cerminara's account of these healings [Cayce's physical-&-life readings] - and an affirmation of the age-old belief in reincarnation. She tells how Cayce saw past the barriers of space and time, how he penetrated the 'previous' lives of his subjects, and performed the fantastic cures and prophecies that made him the most remarkable clairvoyant in modern history.)




buttington -> RE: Integration, Unification... (4/27/2008 5:03:28 PM)

I believe in the law of cause and effect, but not in sin. It's just when we make a mistake. Karma isn't punnishment anyway.

Jude




Angelmum_2000 -> RE: Integration, Unification... (4/27/2008 11:08:31 PM)

Jude thankyou, likewise I love yours.

Bernie, thanks for your explanation - I guess I was refering to the secular or what has become popular meaning of Karma. i.e. often expressed in anger against a perceived enemy. Many will tell their story and end it with, "but karma baby", "what goes around comes around", "they'll get theirs", etc..
Peace will never be possible with that outlook. Hence I believe in forgiveness - especially of oneself.
This puts us on the path of peace. Until we are peaceful with ourselves, forgive (love) ourselves, we can never be completely peaceful with others, forgive (love) others.
This is an ongoing process, like brushing your teeth, an everyday practice.
We cant wait for our feeling state to choose either, constant prayer is necessary.
It goes hand in hand with believing we "....... are loved far beyond the boundaries of this world ......... and can love the world, without belonging to it, but to God." 
Henri Nouwen.
Just my thoughts - sorry if I jumped in and misinterpretted yours.





bernie -> RE: Integration, Unification... (5/13/2008 3:43:43 PM)

Yes! beautiful thoughts &, of course, karma. We, essentially, are how & what we think...for instance, even in the most moving, intensely devastating effects on self, families, the human condition (such as encountered on this site), the human spirit is somehow enabled to find meaningful solutions in the midst of heartrending anguish.  




joeharmony -> RE: Integration, Unification... (5/13/2008 9:57:06 PM)

Bernie

Can we please get it right!  The concept of Karma does NOT include any aspect of the concept of sin.  This is a Judeo/Christian concept, built solidly around a punishment model - if I sin I will be punished. 

Karma has the understanding of cause and effect, and there being a direct relationship between our actions and the response of the universe to those actions.  It is also built solidly on a froundation of reincarnation (which Christianity is not), and the opportunity to repay karmic debts in future lives.  It also includes our capacity to build up karmic capital during our lives by doing good things.  This capital can then be offset against possible debts.

It is a real trap to try and equate the concept of Karma, and the concept of sin and punishment.  Karma does not include original sin, and so a person is not starting from behind at the beginning of life unless they have incurred a debt in a previous one.  Each person is directly responsible for their balance sheet with the universe.  Karma also includes the "You get what you give" rule.




kitonthemoon -> RE: Integration, Unification... (5/14/2008 3:22:40 PM)

  I say....'to each his own'.  Whatever works for one, may not work for another.  However one reached his/her inner peace and stays is very individual, I think.  No?

[:)]Ah.......hope my 2 cents won't offand anyone

In faith, love, and hope.
Jazzie




buttington -> RE: Integration, Unification... (5/14/2008 5:11:37 PM)

I'm with Jazzie and Angelmom here (I think!!!!!!![;)]) But I don't believe in "sin" and I agree with Joe that it needs to be separated from Karma.

My own belief is that Karma is us working out what we were born to work out in this life-time. It isn't a punishment of any kind. However, I do believe that "cause and effect" is a kind of Karma, in that by causing a particular event we will also cause a result, and that will have some kind of effect on the person who caused it. Put simply, if I hit someone they are likely to hit me back, so I learn not to hit people. Which ever way you look at it, Karma is a teaching aid, and that's why, when we don't learn not to hit people the first time, we will get the same lesson until we do learn it.

We will keep on having wars until we learn that wars don't solve anything. For me, that's Karma too.

Jazzie is right, what works for you is what's right for you.

Love Jude




bernie -> RE: Integration, Unification... (5/15/2008 9:52:40 AM)

All this counselor/healer knows is that if you're in tune w/ your Higher power you're much more likely to have good karma. "Sin" may, then, be separation from our Self, from God. Obviously we're all 'sinners' in that we are not yet yet completely, 24/7, partaking in the Unitive Life (final stage of mystic path)... Just spoke w/ a young lady who had extraordinary problems, hallucinating, self-mutilitating, suicidal, taking antipsychotic meds, etc.; however, in an instance of deep crisis she experienced the Holy Spirit, grace, momentarily, but it was sufficient to miraculously transform her whole life. She is now successfully & dramatically metamorphosing herself for the better w/o meds & influencing her whole family. (This, frankly, had me on the verge of tears, my eyes welled w/ joy & awe.)

The healing, transformative power of grace, the Higher power, in transmuting ourselves holistically, unitively, nondually for the better, along w/ our families, societies, & world as well...

The Unitive Life, final stage of mystic path - what better karmic determinant could we ultimately have!




buttington -> RE: Integration, Unification... (5/15/2008 2:29:34 PM)

Bernie, I beg to differ on the idea that we "are all sinners." So much damage has been done to children through teaching them that.

I prefer to believe that we are all beings of light and love, and that sadly, most of us have trouble believing it.

"Sin" is just a mistake. We can all learn and grow, and recognise that yes, we have made mistakes, that others have, do and will make mistakes. None of us is perfect. Belief in an evil world will surely produce it. Belief in a beautiful and  loving world will also produce it.

Jude




bernie -> RE: Integration, Unification... (5/15/2008 4:19:57 PM)

Ma'am, sure, it's more a matter of semantics; we tend to get lost in verbiage & miss the essence. Your recent posting re: your psychic-like experiences were very inspiring, beautifully expressed.




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