dry rot (Full Version)

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bernie -> dry rot (6/13/2008 8:39:55 PM)

Insidious, unwitting moral deterioration, according to noted historian-philosophers like Toynbee, Spengler et al., posit as  being civilizations & cultures' ultimate demise, which these renowned scholars examined & perused from the beginning of time. In other words, an inward, gradual corruption, as of morals, is at the root of existential, spiritual crises.

P.W. Martin in his very remarkable book entitled Experiment in Depth refers to a great historical revelation contained in the study of History by Arnold Toynbee. He says that Arnold Toynbee's hypothesis '...is that, when a civilization comes to a time of troubles, such as we are now in, individuals here and there turn from the outer world of political and social chaos to the inner world of the psyche; there come upon a vision of a new way of life; and returning to the outer world, form the nucleus of a creative minority through which the civilization may find renewal.' ...Let us hope that the Army of the Few will gather more and more strength, and that the day may not be far away when many will find enrolment in that Army of Pioneers for the rebuilding of our civilization, for the construction of a Heaven, not away, but on the very Earth itself.
- (Sri Aurobindo's Philosophy of Yoga, Boroda)
 
The great nature poet, Wordsworth; Suzuki, the eminent Zen expert; and the Gospels all agree that one has to become like a child again in order to see into the nature of things, and to live in the essence without masks. Whether it's Zen or mysticism the purpose is to merge one's self beyond contradictions, e.g., existential dichotomies (time-space, life-death, body-mind) or subject-object split. Obviously, this dynamic, receptive method (fusion-knowledge) can be extremely useful for scientists, artists, and psychologists to gain empathic ('in-feeling') or experiential inner-knowledge. But how does one go about attaining this fusion?
 
Unlike the child the adult has to acquire a Taoistic or contemplative approach, i.e., to be still, to listen, to see what people and things are really trying to say, tuning in with the third ear as well. Children are much more adept at this - at looking, at listening in an absorbed and selfless way...a form of nonactive, noninterfering witnessing and savoring...the experience happens instead of it being made to happen...it is in certain instances a path to more reliable and veridical cognition.
 
This, for instance, may be called 'surrender' which is an extremely complex notion for grownups to understand, much less accomplish. Therefore, before one can become truly objective one must overcome constricting subjectivity (greed [Buddism's cardinal sin], narcisscism, nationalism - group narcisscism); and, paradoxically, one must become completely empty in order to become completely filled - enter into the spirit of the object, into the nous (Mind) of the world.
 
It is said that Henri Matisse looked at an object which he intended to paint for weeks, even for months, until its spirit began to move him, to urge him, even to threaten him, to give it an expression.
- (D.T. Suzuki, Mysticism: Christian and Buddhist)   
 
Suzuki says this is what is meant for the subject to be lost in the object, Buddhists call this 'Emptiness', the philosophy of Self-identity, of suchness (sunyata) which is also the essence of creativity and mysticism, of transforming ego-centered love into something universal, i.e., love of God, the stranger, for mankind.
 
Spiritual poverty can be related to 'emptiness' and it is necessary to become completely empty before you can become completely filled (Creative Void, Wealthy) by overcoming one's greed, one's individual and group narcisscism. And, in essence, the history of man, of consciousness, is following this development towards One Man, One World, One Language, when all people, all nations will function in greater harmony, peace and understanding. But to achieve this we necessarily have to overcome all symbiotic submissive ties of blood and soil - smash the idols - defy the gods - and get to the root, the heart, the very core of our nature as human beings which is the real problem and crisis and, ultimately, the only revolution.
 
 




buttington -> RE: dry rot (6/14/2008 5:32:28 AM)

I subscribe to the philosophy that, what we dwell on we will get more of.
What we most fear will happen.

Jude




Hope coach -> RE: dry rot (6/14/2008 11:20:43 PM)

Jude
I too have found the same experience when I dwell on the pessimistic side of an issue
the end results are usually in the negative spectrum when I choose the positive approach
solutions abound with joy....I would add the same is true of worry my personal challenge is
to hand God the issue I worry about quicker than I normally do......because my experience with worry is you get more worry......meditation and prayer bring me peace
Hope Coach
Barbara T




buttington -> RE: dry rot (6/15/2008 7:11:49 AM)

I have had too many experiences of my worst fears being manifested to think this idea is not true. When I first learned about it I thought it sounded a bit far-fetched, but it is true.

I now try to imagine the best scenario and work towards it. This isn't wearing rose-coloured glasses, it's believing that the best can happen.......and why not? If the worst can happen, so can the best. And I firmly believe we create our world with our thoughts and deeds, so let's think up a good world.[:)]
Not admitting that the world isn't perfect would be putting our heads in the sand, but if we only see the worst, that is what we will always see when we look.

It's like the crisis in the UK at the moment, over our youth. Because they appear to be getting more troublesome, people tend to only see the bad things they do, but the majority of young people are still good well behaved people. We see only what we want to see.

Another thing we need to address is Judgement. We can't help it. We judge something in just about every moment of our lives. (rain is bad, sunshine is good. Her hat is terrible, mine is nicer, etc. etc.) Try to go five minutes without judgement. It's an interesting exercise. Those who believe in God know that only God does the judging, so we don't need to, but we still do it.
Personally I don't see God as sitting in judgement of us, he just lets us get on with it. We have to do the working out of whether we are right or not. I think we sit in judgement of each other far too much and would benefit from trying to understand each other more instead.

On the whole, the world is moving towards a more settled and spiritual form. More people are turning to spiritual interests, more people are turning away from war and selfishness and all that fear-based stuff. I am quite hopeful. It may not come in my lifetime, but it is coming.

Jude




bernie -> RE: dry rot (6/15/2008 10:41:17 AM)

Yes, that's healthy-mindedness - you guys are right!




J1937 -> RE: dry rot (6/17/2008 1:59:26 AM)

Jude,
Barbara,

I absolutely agree with you. Here is a quote which I heard the other day on the radio (didn“t catch the name of the author, though). It seems to fit in here:

In the dirt of a world, which is seemingly without faith, pearls are hidden.
We have to be ready to get our hands soiled when trying to find them.
Even if we are lost, it is the Holy One, who goes searching;
who finds us, over and over again.

Juliana
_____________________________
Speak Peace in a World of Conflict








Hope coach -> RE: dry rot (6/17/2008 8:48:16 AM)

Jude
I am so glad you bring in the concept of judgement my Mom raised me as a Protestant and that God was a authoritarian judgemental fire and brimstone God then blamed this concept on my British grandmother's ethics later in life she adopted a  loving God of infinite love and understanding I grew to choose to believe in a wonderful all accepting God who is the source of all the wisdom and guidance needed to fill a world and life of beauty for us all even in the midst of the worlds dark thoughts, values and concepts the light is always there to be seen when ready....
the master arrives whe the student is ready
Namaste
Barbara T




buttington -> RE: dry rot (6/17/2008 4:51:21 PM)

Dear Barbara and Juliana,

Yet again, Gratefulness comes up trumps to catch me when I fall!!!![:)]  Thank you.(I'm feeling very sorry for myself tonight.)
I can't imagine why we chose to adopt such a harsh, judgmental image of God. How could he possibly represent Love if he is going to punish us all the time?

I was aghast when I read some fundamentalist Christian literature which was aimed at children, and started by telling them that all children are born wicked.
I've got over my anger about it now because I realize that they are just on the wrong path and have lost sight of Love altogether. Very sad.

The subject of Judgement is also relevant to me tonight because I have just been judged harshly and unfairly, and it hurts.

Love to both, Jude




bernie -> RE: dry rot (6/17/2008 7:46:23 PM)

Instead of focusing on the world's problems, give your attention and energy to trust, love, abundance, education and peace.
                                                                                        
                                                                                         The Secret
 
 
Jesus was a consciously cosmic soul, who recognized his unity with all. He knew that love must become universal before it can reach its maturity.
                                                                     
                                                                      The Science of Mind, page 449
 
 
Nothing can come into your experience unless you summon it through persistent thoughts.
 
                                                                                         The Secret




buttington -> RE: dry rot (6/18/2008 4:18:20 AM)

The only reason the same thing keeps happening is that you keep focusing on what happened.

    -- Alan Cohen




bernie -> RE: dry rot (6/18/2008 11:07:27 AM)

Yes, but let us not perseverate, hopefully, we'll go beyond, 'Western man must begin to work on himself - the inner-man, deepening, enriching, and enlivening his whole being - for the real battle is inside. Our government is just reacting - there is no higher consciousness, no broader vision - or a more cosmic understanding. If we are ever to end up as more peaceful human beings, each man must work on himself and find peace and contentment inside. The only way you express peace is by being a peacful human being - you can only teach by being! And it is all inside us - the whole Universe...the history of mankind is the history of consciousness - what we should all be doing is increasing human consciousness.'
 
- (Dr. Sidney Cohen)




buttington -> RE: dry rot (6/18/2008 1:14:46 PM)

Bernie, please can you tell me what "perseverate" means? It's not in my dictionary.

Jude




bernie -> RE: dry rot (6/18/2008 11:21:37 PM)

  • To persist something insistently or reduntantly
  • pathological-type repetition as w/ mental/neurological disorders
  • persisting response to a prior stimulus after a new stimulus has been presented, often associated w/ cognitive disorders
  • continuation or repetition of an activity or mental state to an unusual degree; the spontaneous recurrence in the mind of the same idea, phrase, tune, mental image, etc.





buttington -> RE: dry rot (6/19/2008 1:52:42 PM)

Thank you Bernie........that is a word I haven't come across before.

Jude




poverty -> RE: dry rot (6/25/2008 10:33:26 AM)

Kenosis.  To empty self for the Other.  It is what Christ modeled, it is what I strive to practice daily, not an easy feat when my/our base humanity desires control, security and approval.




Hildegard -> RE: dry rot (6/25/2008 2:48:55 PM)

Welcome to the forum, Eileen!

Your brief post reminds me of Fr. Thomas Keating's way of talking about what gets in the way of the "true self".
I hope you will visit often and share with us your wisdom and experience!

Wishing you everything good,
Edda




poverty -> RE: dry rot (6/26/2008 12:22:04 AM)

Yes, Father Thomas Keating, I know his work well and enjoy a weekly comtemplative centering prayer group.  Cyber communication is new to me, new and somewhat awkward.  Thank you for the encouragement!




Thankful one -> RE: dry rot (6/26/2008 1:24:43 AM)

Poverty,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate your input. I look forward to reading more of your posts whenever you care to share.

One wonderful thing about cyber communication is that I can send you some flowers to welcome you to the forum. Sending electronic flowers is free and fun and most people will appreciate some flowers. This way others get to enjoy the flowers as well whenever they see them. 

Some one told me that you can never have too many flowers so here you go! Here's some gazanias from Spain. Welcome aboard!

[image]http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/185/gazania-flowers-spain_13627.jpg[/image]




Hildegard -> RE: dry rot (6/26/2008 8:32:41 AM)

Dear Eileen,

We have something in common. I have been part of a Saturday morning Centering Prayer group for eighteen years!  Though located in a Catholic parish, ours is an ecumenical group that has been thriving for all this time with members from different denominations, or none, and even a very beloved Jewish member.

Many good wishes,
Love,
Edda




poverty -> RE: dry rot (6/26/2008 8:53:40 AM)

My spirit has been gladdened and nurtured in breathing in the beauty of your flower gift greeting Thankful one.  I especially delight in the community viewing philosophy as the best gifts are shared and uniting in essence.




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