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RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...."

 
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RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/8/2008 5:07:44 PM   
celtic star

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 5/23/2007
Status: offline 		Jude, hugs across the ether to you , Glenys xx
Post #: 181
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/8/2008 6:18:01 PM   
buttington

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: UK
Status: online 		Glenys, thank you. Hugs are exactly what I need.

Hugs back to you, Jude

_____________________________

Love is the only way
Post #: 182
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/8/2008 6:26:19 PM   
Hildegard

 

Posts: 2232
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Dear Jude, you are being asked to do something very painful, but perhaps necessary. I believe that you do have the strength and courage to go through this.

Warm hugs from me as well!
Much love,
Edda

_____________________________

Peace and joy!
Post #: 183
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/8/2008 6:30:48 PM   
buttington

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: UK
Status: online 		Dear Edda,
Thank you for thinking I am strong enough to cope. (I feel a wee bit wobbly at the moment)
And for the hugs. I will be getting some 'real' ones tomorrow, but I can feel them coming across the ether as well.

Love Jude

_____________________________

Love is the only way
Post #: 184
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/8/2008 10:42:32 PM   
artemis611

 

Posts: 375
Joined: 7/20/2007
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		Jude, your experience reminds me of one I had at one time.  I wonder if you are thinking what I was thinking, that by letting go of the past hurt, it was like saying it was OK.  I found that, for me, it wasn't OK, AND YET I still had to let it go to move on.  I had to seriously ask myself what I was waiting for (I decided it was an apology, which I knew I wasn't going to get), and ask myself how long I was going to pine away for something that wouldn't be forthcoming.   I don't know if this is anything like what you're going through, I hope it helps. 

Either way, I'm sending you hugs too!

Love,
Lori

_____________________________

To truly listen is to perfect one's own virtue.
Post #: 185
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/9/2008 3:05:06 AM   
J1937

 

Posts: 681
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Austria/Europe
Status: online 		Jude, belated hugs from me, too! I feel with you, knowing how hard it is to let go of past hurt. The thought that helps me is remembering that people only hurt others when they are hurting themselves. (Don´t know if this conveys what I want to say).

Lori, you have put your finger on a wound in me. I, too, have been waiting for an apology - it would be the only way of putting things right. I also know, though, that it will never come. Accepting that this world is just too imperfect to restore justice...
Post #: 186
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/9/2008 8:08:39 AM   
Imenuff

 

Posts: 645
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Jude, dear, Your post sounds like the old saying "It's better to let sleeping dogs lie," especially when it comes to "digging" up all the past heart hurts. Sometimes, it is like a scabbed over, infected cut. If we don't bump it, we forget that it is there but it never really heals until we open it up and clean it out. From my perspective, this is always difficult when it comes to heart hurts. Bravo for you, dear one. See how much you have grown. Old heart hurts from time to time seem to need to be healed at a much deeper level. I remember telling my spiritual companion once that I had already dealt with that long ago. The response was that this is a new person dealing with it who has grown much and is now ready to deal with it at a much deeper level. I guess what I am trying to say is that this has a real positive aspect for you because it says you have grown much since the last time you revisited these situations. Maybe it's not so much leaving it behind but that you have now grown enough to bring some peace into it.

(Now doesn't that just sound great!!!! On a personal level, I hate doing it every bit as much as you do. That's probably why I look on retreats as such a "blessing" and a curse When it is a private retreat with one on one meetings, there's no place to hide).
Dear One, know that you have many hugs an much prayer. Special hugs from Imee.

_____________________________

Shalom(May you be at peace in Body, Mind,& Spirit)

I'menuff
Post #: 187
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/9/2008 9:36:59 AM   
Thankful one

 

Posts: 1672
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Jude,
I will keep you in my prayers as you process these difficult emotional situations.

I want to join the others in sending you a couple of hugs.



Post #: 188
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/9/2008 10:06:18 AM   
Thankful one

 

Posts: 1672
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Jude,
Here's some more hugs for you.



Post #: 189
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/9/2008 4:52:12 PM   
buttington

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: UK
Status: online 		Thank you all soooo much. I feel genuinely Blessed now

After all your hugs and pictures of hugs,and those from my friend today, I feel much better.

He also set up all the wiring ready for when my Son sorts out the Broadband connection, hopefully soon.

I'm truly Blessed.

Love and many hugs in return,Jude

_____________________________

Love is the only way
Post #: 190
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/9/2008 5:37:48 PM   
buttington

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: UK
Status: online 		Lori, Yes, that is exactly how it is for me. When the person causing you all the pain thinks it's something else entirely, you know you won't get an apology. And it takes a lot to get them to see that some of the pain was actually caused by them, so at some stage you have to let it go and move on, as you say.

With the distance of a day, I can see the virtue of it, because, in other sessions the therapist has managed to get my Son to own some of the responsibility, and I'm pleased to say, without too much argument.

The therapist can see that I don't trust my Son not to hurt me again, and that's getting in the way. But those days I don't want to return to were very dark ones for me, and as Betty says, I've papered over them instead of really dealing with them. I have had counselling myself for it, but I think it will eventually be for the best that I re-visit those times with my Son present. Just don't want to.

Juliana, yes, you have coneyed very well My Son has admitted a few times how hurt he is too.

Betty, Hugs for your wisdom, and thank you for a loan of Imee.

Love, Jude

_____________________________

Love is the only way
Post #: 191
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/15/2008 4:35:32 PM   
buttington

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: UK
Status: online 		Hi folks,
I won't bore you all too much, but I am feeling decidedly gratitude challenged tonight after the latest counselling session.
It's been suggested that I have a problem, it being that I don't believe I have a problem!!!!!!!!!! And the suggestion that it's something to do with my early childhood, I find patronizing. I know it isn't. It's one person calling the shots and if the other disagrees they get told they are the unreasonable one. I have compromised a lot, but won't submit to bullying.

Now it feels as if I have 2 people attacking me instead of one. I honestly don't know where to go from here.

It's like saying that it's OK for someone to bully and generally be horrible to me, but it's actually my problem and their behaviour doesn't count.

My Son says I never talk to him, but if I do and it's not what he wants to hear, I get a verbal battering, so don't try again.

Does all this sound unreasonable? Am I missing something?

Sorry to go on. I expect you can feel my anger and heartache from here.

Jude

_____________________________

Love is the only way
Post #: 192
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/15/2008 7:32:59 PM   
joeharmony

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 11/21/2007
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		Dearest Jude,

I do feel your anger and heartache.  I also feel angry from reading your words, because I recognise the process of a counsellor colluding with one of the participants in a relationship to continue and reinforce abuse of the other, rather than working to stop and heal the abuse.

I hesitate to say this, but there is a danger for you in trying to work with that counsellor.  The therapeutic relationship has been compromised, and to continue will further disempower you. 

I also hesitate to offer advice, but having had to deal with a destructive relationship with one of my own kids, I had to decide a while ago whether to keep trying to "fix" the relationship, or step back and accept that, at least for now, looking after myself meant there is no relationship.

Maybe the answer to "I honestly don't know where to go from here" could be answerted by asking "what do I need for my life and my happiness".

My thoughts and prayers are with you.  I hope you can find some inner peace.

_____________________________

_____________________________________
With Love
Joe
Post #: 193
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/15/2008 7:41:13 PM   
Thankful one

 

Posts: 1672
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Jude,
I agree with Joe's wise counsel here. You have a right to feel angry here.

Sometimes you need to just "punt." I tend to agree to stop seeing that particular therapist, but to continue with therapy.

What makes it more difficult for you is that you live with your son and he is hard to distance yourself from easily.

You are in my thoughts and prayers. May angels watch over you.










Post #: 194
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/16/2008 12:18:17 AM   
buttington

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: UK
Status: online 		Thank you Joe and T.O. Here I am at 10 to 5 in the morning....mulling. So I got up and came here.

Up until now I have been very happy with the counsellor, but I feel she is pushing me up a blind alley to try and find something from my past which is not there. I've had lots of therapy for that and I know this has nothing to do with my past. I accept that both my Son and I revert to 'child' mode at times of conflict, but seen from my point of view, I have been subjected to a few years of bullying, blackmail and brow-beating, and I'm in therapy because, a) I want it to stop, b) I want to understand why, and c) I want my Son back.

I agree with both of you about the wisdom of 'letting it be' for a while, and that is what I've been doing because the alternative was too traumatic.

I'm seeing my acupuncturist on Thursday who is also very kind and wise. I'll see what he thinks.

Joe, what you said about the "colluding" has truth. My Son truly does believe I have a problem. He's not being unkind in this instance.....he really does believe it, and he said at one point in the session, "I'm not blaming you." (for having the problem) He had a 'damasus' moment during a soul-searching retreat as part of his Shiatsu training, and thinks there is a 'damascus' moment in there somewhere for me.
Yes, we are all products of our past history, but I didn't 'make' my Son abusive towards me. I'm not responsible for his behaviour. (That is my number one 'commandment')

Thanks again, I hope I haven't burdened you. It does help to share, as they say.

T.O. I can feel that angelic presence.

Love, Jude

_____________________________

Love is the only way
Post #: 195
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/16/2008 12:41:04 AM   
J1937

 

Posts: 681
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Austria/Europe
Status: online 		Dear Jude,

I feel with you. My spontaneous reaction: the counsellor has been violating one (or all?) of Rosenberg´s principles. (You have the book). I have been listening to his CDs a lot lately, as I am preparing for a workshop, and the more I do, I am convinced that his method is the way to deal with people. Observing without  blaming or criticizing, and empathically receiving how the other one is without hearing blame or criticism. You have heard criticism in her words, and the natural reaction is what you now feel. You will get over it.

Much love,
Juliana
_____________________________
Speak Peace in a World of Conflict
Post #: 196
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/16/2008 1:28:24 PM   
buttington

 

Posts: 1501
Joined: 6/9/2007
From: UK
Status: online 		Dear Juliana,
I'm wondering if I would do better with a CD version of Rosenberg. I find the book hard to follow as it doesn't immediately grab me and I lose concentration. Some things are better if you hear them. I'll look out for some.

Yes, you are right, I'll get over it. I already feel better. Probably the getting out of bed in the early hours and unburdening onto you lot.
I think the counsellor is lapsing into psychotherapy, which is her forte. I've had plenty of that and don't agree with my Son that I need some more. I think maybe he does, and he is getting some ocasionally now. He has a habit of reflecting onto others what he is suffering himself........I think it's to deflect responsibility for it. At least that's how it appears. A simple example is how he accuses me of "screaming" at him but he shouts loud enough sometimes to be heard miles away!! I only have to raise my voice a bit and I'm "screaming" apparently.

Thank you Juliana for your useful input,

Love Jude

_____________________________

Love is the only way
Post #: 197
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 4/16/2008 1:40:10 PM   
J1937

 

Posts: 681
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Austria/Europe
Status: online 		Jude,
The CD version of Rosenberg´s Non-violent Communication consists of 4 CDs, edited by "Sounds True".

Juliana

_____________________________

"Speak Peace in a World of Conflict" (M.B.Rosenberg)
Post #: 198
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 5/5/2008 6:37:43 PM   
J1937

 

Posts: 681
Joined: 6/25/2007
From: Austria/Europe
Status: online 		Today I feel gratitude challenged as a terrible tragedy has happened in my neighborhood. A neighbor was to leave the house in which she had been living since her divorce, as her former husband was granted the house. She took her own life by blowing it up. The explosion made the ground shake all around. We are all shocked. Please say a prayer for her, her husband and their eight grown-up children.

Juliana
_____________________________
Speak Peace in a World of Conflict
Post #: 199
RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." - 5/5/2008 9:44:12 PM   
Hildegard

 

Posts: 2232
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Juliana, when I was reading on www.kurier.at I saw the headline but did not read the details to make the conncection. This is terribly sad especially for the family left behind, and scary for all those in the neighborhood. Others might have been injured or have had their houses damaged. I'll keep the family in my prayers.

Edda

_____________________________

Peace and joy!
Post #: 200
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