RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (Full Version)

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Hildegard -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/21/2008 10:41:21 PM)

Dear Thankful one,

I was just about to leave for church, when I saw your post. So I had a little time to reflect on it. Thank you for sharing with us not only your grief, but your beautiful memories of all the occasions you spent with your daughters. I agree with Jude that you might not want to bury them. I wonder if you have written them down somewhere, perhaps in a blank book? You could keep it in a safe place for a time unknown to you, when you might be able to share them with your daughters. Relationships change, now they seem ended, but you don't know what the future might hold! Now you are feeling the deep pain of loss and are grieving it, but don't let go of hope!

I have been lighting candles for you in a group I believe is yours, THANK.

Much love and warm hugs,
Edda




J1937 -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/24/2008 3:50:31 AM)

Thankful One,

It is only now that I have come across your post of  6/21. I want to emphasize what Jude and Edda have said. Grieving, as much as it hurts, has healing power. Rituals have, too. They should be positive and hopeful ones, though - doing something that reminds you of the positive aspects of the loving relationship between you and your daughters. Try not to look at it as being over once and for all. I am deeply convinced that the fruits of love are indestructible. And do give hope a chance.

Juliana
_____________________________
Speak Peace in a World of Conflict






Thankful one -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/24/2008 8:38:07 AM)

Jude, Edda, Juliana, Betty, Marie and others,
Thanks for caring and sharing your wisdom. I appreciate your concern and the good advice in your replies. Maybe I should have been more complete in my description of my ceremony, but by the end of my post I was really emotional.

The ceremony was to bury the daily relationship that I had with them which is over and for which I needed to grieve. I used to be with them daily and now I am not. I really miss starting my day having breakfast with them, seeing them throughout the day, at all the daily special times we would create like with spontaneous dance performances, etc. The part of my life where I saw them every day and spent delightful hours with them is over.

I felt a strong need to grieve for the loss of that daily contact of our relationships that is now over.

The ceremony was not to bury my relationship with them because I know I will have always some sort of relationship in our hearts now and forevermore. I don't know what form that will take and can only pray about it.

The ceremony was to remember my love for them and not leave the spot where we used to share our hearts without somehow acknowledging the love that was in my heart for them and in their heart for me. I know in my hearts how much they both will always love me. I know they are both sad because I don't see them every day.

I know this from having seen them in person and talked with them on the phone recently. It's real clear to me where their hearts are at. It's real clear from all that they have shared with me.

I got the opportunity to visit with them before they left. It was a very special time that both my girls, especially my oldest girl, got to be together with me and we all got to share our mutual love.

It is abundantly clear to me when my daughters told my wife to relax so they can get some time with me. I could not miss their sentiments in all that they did that day hugging me, wiping away my tears and telling me that they loved me.

When told by my wife that they could not open the Christmas presents I had bought them, they both turned and defiantly looked at her and said, "Mom, come on!". I know they are fighting to keep a relationship with me and that they are consistently and visibly upset with their mother for stopping that relationship.
 
When my wife said that they couldn't open any more presents on several occasions, they just looked at her until she sat back down and let them open their presents. They were pretty clear that they knew that their mother had lost it and that they needed to be in charge of the meeting because she was unable.
 
My wife said that they could not bring any presents with them with them in the car. She said they couldn't poosibly use them in the back seat of the car buckled into car seats. They turned and stared at her until she relented. They kept getting a few more presents to take with them. When they got up to leave they insisted on keeping the presents with them. The girls were both holding as many of the presents as they could carry tightly to their chests all the way to the car as if to say that they will be keeping what I have given to them close to their hearts.

I have had the wonderful opportunity to have two phone conversations with them recently.

It's unmistakeable in the first conversation with the girls to hear phrases like, "Dad, I really miss you" and "Dad, we're at WalMart". My oldest daughter was frustrated and upset that my wife had made the girls phone conversation with me be from WalMart where it was quite distracting. My daughter did everything to keep the conversation alive and held her own in the conversation so that the conversation would linger and she would be able to tell me about her life and ask me about mine.

It is clear to me when told the conversation needs to be over, my oldest daughter wants to raise her voice loud and proud in an independent manner as a rebuke to my wife and say, "Dad, I really love you".
 
It's clear to me that when given the phone on the last conversation with my youngest daughter. My youngest daughter starts telling me all about the play she is going to be in and is surprised when told that she has to end the conversation when it is going the best. My oldest daughter was even more demonstrable with sharing her love.

Since then, I was told that I could send them art supplies as birthday presents. Both my oldest daughter and my youngest daughter were loud in their expressions of joy knowing that this would occur. I sent them each a big box of things they would appreciate.

Then I find out that she repeatedly refused to let the girls have the presents. When I mentioned the question of whether they had got their birthday presents, my oldest daughter was surprised to learn that her Mom had not given them to her and her sister.
 
What I am now grieving for is three things. I am grieving for my own loss. I am grieving for my wife's loss. I am mostly grieving for the girls loss.
 
I am an adult and have many years of love and loss to provide some stability through this crisis. They don't have that background. They have led very protected lives with constant reassurance of the love I had, their mother had, and their friends had with them. 
 
Like nearly all parents, we both have done everything we could to make sure to prevent their little hearts from any damage. How can they and their hearts cope with this sudden removal of the most important loving man in their life? How can they process something that they have nothing to compare to experiencing?
 
I can share my love for them by sending them love and light every day many times a day. I can keep all the good memories alive in my heart. But it grieves me to tears when I think about their young hearts breaking.
 
As I move away from where we had shared so much love, I wanted to somehow honor that all that we had shared here in a tangible way. It seems disrespectful to not acknowledge the love that has occurred here.

I wanted to leave a testimonial of the love I had for them and the love that they had for me. So I honored that love we shared as a father and two daughters as being permanent and unchangable by placing a very real and lasting memory of them in the sacred ground where we shared love as a devoted father and daughters. I wanted the memorial to be with something that was meaningful to them in a spot where love had been allowed to flourish.
 
Does this make any more sense? It is a very positive memory that I am creating. I love them and they love me. It is an unwillingness to let our love die that motivated me to leave a reminder to never give up on the love we shared or to lose hope.




Imenuff -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/24/2008 8:54:48 AM)

Dear Thankful One, I first saw your post this morning before going to Mass. I couldn't agree more with Edda and Jude. It is so very important to grieve, to go through the pain rather than try to bury it or avoid it or go around it. Your relationship with your daughters sounds like it contained so very much more than that of a lot of women I deal with who don't have such experiences yet even as adults.
quote:

I decided to make two small ceremonial graves for the daily relationship with my daughters that I have lost.
. I can readily understand this and the grief that accompanies these ceremonial graves for the loss of the daily relationship. T.O. we are creature of mind and spirit. The beautiful experiences you have had with your daughters cannot be erased. Perhaps the pain you feel from this daily loss could be given to the Holy One as a very powerful Father's prayer for his daughters and for all the men in this world who are experiencing the same pain. Using pain as prayer does not mean we negate or bury it but instead go through it with all the gut exploding ache inside. Perhaps this little ceremonial "resting place" of daily visits is the perfect place to bring these two beautiful little ones into the presence of the Holy One and just hold them there in "Someone's" love that makes our individual love seem like only a grain of sand on a seashore. Edda is right, for as long as you are there, this would be a perfect place to daily write to your girls to let them know how much they are missed, and how the grief of not seeing them almost seeems too much to bear.(What a beautiful gift of love to give them one day).
quote:

I couldn't bear to cover it up yet as I am not ready yet.
. What I am hearing your spirit say is yes, this is horrible and more painful and gut ripping out than ever thought possible, but the relationship is not dead and never will be. May you be blessed with the comfort of knowing that you are sending this horrific pain to both your little ones as the wings of your love and prayer for them.




buttington -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/24/2008 4:22:50 PM)

Dear T.O. Thank you for explaining in more detail. I very much do see your need for a focus of your love for your girls, and I think the little shrine is perfect. I think what we were afraid of was that you may have lost all hope of that daily connection with them. You may not have it every day, but please don't lose hope that one day you will see much more of them than you do now.

I'm sure you will do all you can to keep contact going.

As usual, Betty has put it all so beautifully.[:)]

Sending you wishes for comfort and hope.

Love, Jude




Hildegard -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/24/2008 4:23:50 PM)

Dear Thankful one, thank you for your last post which clarifies your current relationship with your daughters. Somehow I had gotten the impression that you were completely cut off from them. I am happy to learn that you do have contact with them and that you are assured of their love for you. I am so very sad that their mother has the need to hurt them in order to hurt you. The relationship between you and their mother is an adult problem and should not be theirs.

Perhaps you don't want to call this "resting place", as Betty calls it, a grave after all, but a special memory place to be present to your relationship with your daughters in all its phases and transitions.

Much love and warm hugs,
Edda




Thankful one -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/25/2008 10:15:57 AM)

Dearest, Betty, Jude, Edda, and others,
I guess this will take me a while to clarify so thanks for bearing with me.

I appreciate all that you have to say to me and the wisdom that you speak from is all true. It should not be a grave but a sacred place of tribute. I like the word Shrine to describe the holiness of this place.

I never will give up hope that my daughters and I will be reunited some day because I know we one day we will. It really looks like it just may not be for another ten years or so. This where I believe I need to grieve the loss of daily contact and honor the daily contact we had for all these years.

Yes, I have recently had these three connections with my daughters. One was in person in December. The other two connections were on the phone last month. All were very precious and incredibly important to both me and my girls.

What my wife is now saying is that these will be the last communications I will ever have with my girls until they reach 18 years of age. She wants to break off all communications. I may yet be able to write to them.

She has threatened me and said she will say whatever she needs to say to get her way, despite what my girls are saying. She knows full well how my girls, especially my oldest daughter, strongly feel about her decision to cease contact betweeen my girls and me.

My oldest daughter is especially vocal in her defiance to her mother. She has on several occasions during these three communications and in other ways tried to do everything she knows how to do to keep contact going with me.

I am leaving all this in God's hands as only God knows what is best at this time. I trust in God's judgment with all my heart. God brought them to me.

Both my girls have blessed me so much with their presence in my life and I know I have blessed them with my presence in their lives. I pray that God will soften my wife's heart and allow for the love between me and the girls to continue to be shared.

I send them all love and light and pray for their young hearts to be comforted every day, usually two or three times a day and more on Sunday. I also pray out loud for my wife every day that she may be comforted as well.

I do pray several times a day for all the fathers and all the mothers in the world who are separated from their children as well. I pray for all those parents who have been separated from their children because of death, alcohol and drugs, sickness, legal problems, and other tragic situations.
 
I pray for healing energy to embrace all who have suffered this loss. I keep my loss in perspective by realizing they are alive. As much as my loss has hurt me, I know I cannot begin to comprehend the loss of a child who has died. I say a special prayer for these Moms and Dads every day.




buttington -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/25/2008 1:20:16 PM)

quote:

God brought them to me


T.O. that was a lovely tribute to your girls.

Don't put a time limit on when you will have contact again, because, (I believe anyway) that if you do, the Universe will do it's best to fulfill that affirmation.

Believe it will be sooner.

Much Love, Jude




Hope coach -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (6/25/2008 2:10:41 PM)

Dear Gratitude Family
please visit this link
 http://www.riversongs.com/Flas/today.swf    
Im feeling gratitude challenged and like a toddler
throwing a temper tantrum so I will return later
after my time out
Namaste
Barbara T




artemis611 -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 11:46:15 AM)

Nothing serious, only a little good-natured whining:  It's supposed to hit 105 degrees today (yikes!).[:(]  This is a case of "be careful what you wish for," because only a short time back I was happy it was finally summer[:D]!

Lori




buttington -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 12:34:15 PM)

Lori,
I was feeling fed up because it is not like Summer at all here, but I think I would prefer it like it is than temperatures that high!!
Jude




Hope coach -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 12:44:58 PM)

Hi Lori &Gratitude Family in the heat belt
I will pray for all of you and my daughter and family who are in Las Vegas trying to avoid heat stroke I will ask for Cooling and cool places to shelter you we are in the 9o's here in Chicago with almost equal humidity but our central air feels cool at least in the early part of the day I will share our gratitude with God for the coming cool autumn days may they arrive in his right time Lori I love your self acceptance and identifying that good natured whining is therapeutic at times and support helps us through I hope you had wonderful travels and welcome home Edda I hope your a little cooler by the lake front I remember days we took the bus there just to get the natural air conditioning it felt at least 10 degrees cooler at times
Namaste
Barbara T




Imenuff -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 1:15:09 PM)

Lori, I can't blame you. Our temps and humidity have been horrible, especially the humidity,[:'(][:'(] but not as bad as some years. We too are supposed to be in the 100+ temps. AAAAAAHHHHHHHH! those good old days when the windows could be open and the attic fan on. Every so often, we all seem to need a little good natured whining.
Jude, I think all of us would love to send you our Glorious?????? summer temps.
Barbara, I am glad to see that you have gotten unstuck from removing all the floor glue and were able to once again post. I can readily relate to one of your other posts about the muscle aches from using those we didn't even know we had. I had not read your post from 6/25 about "feeling like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum." Sorry I didn't respond to it. I don't know about others but when I really feel like throwing a temper tantrum, I am not the least bit interested in a "time out." But, on the other hand, isn't it real gift to remember that little one inside who can throw temper tantrums is also that little one who can look at the blue sky and white mountain clouds and be filled with awe?

Blessings for a peace filled day to all.




Hope coach -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 1:51:33 PM)

Betty
thanks for the validation yes I am so that person who can do just that star gazing, cloud naming
inner child  You and Lori have embraced what I try to feel that it is absoutely alright to viist that pouty, temper tantrum inner child then embrace her with love as we walk back to womanhood with God's Blessings Today I am feeling more grateful due to all the support and small miracle stories shared here I am watching the "Secret Garden" a personal fav and going to a special Mass at the VA Recovery Home....Bless you and all here I will send up prayers for Paul and all here wth health concerns, those with fianancial concerns, relationship issues, gratitude for blessings received and those blessings to come PS  almost done pickin up the tile and cleaning the glue any suggesstions to make the clean up less sticky will be welcomed
Namaste
Barbara T




Hildegard -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 3:47:57 PM)

Barbara, so far it hasn't got as hot today as predicted, at least in the vicinity of the lake. This morning it was our Centering Prayer Group's turn to host the after mass hospitality in front of the church. Orange juice and cold water were more popular than coffee! The donuts go fast regardless of the temperature! It is always good not to have to clear away too many leftovers! However, I was glad to get home and cool off!

Wishing everyone well-functioning airconditioning,
Edda




Imenuff -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 5:32:35 PM)

Barbara, have you tried a strong solution of oxiclean and hot water--like maybe a half cup to a quart of water. I don't know what kind of surface you are trying to get the sticky off. If you have to clean the surface anyway before putting something new down, try wiping it with the with a kind of drippy wet oxiclean water cloth, let it sit a few minutes, and then go back and wipe it again--a lot of the sticky goo tends to just ball up. It's not a fun job but makes for good prayer. I have a house full of sticky goo to get up off the hardwood floors before we can refinish them. I am really not looking forward to it. Good Luck!!




Hope coach -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (8/3/2008 8:15:59 PM)

Imenuff
Thank you so much it is wood sub flooring and I have just been using a steamer with plain water all along I felt a scrubbing with some detergent would help I really share your pain and gain it is a good prayer and yes I love the muscles I now feel its been a long time for them. I will keep you in prayer as we do our floors together or close in time
Gratefully
Barbara T




buttington -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (9/10/2008 5:05:47 AM)

This morning I was feeling decidedly Gratitude challenged, and then I came on to the Forum and read the posts. this is a great Forum.[:)]

On our walk to school this morning, Chloe and I found what we thought was a dead rabbit on the side of the road. I decided to move it on the way back so it wouldn't get more squashed, and so a fox could eat it later.

On the way home I stopped by the rabbit and noticed it was breathing![:(] It's nose was bleeding and it's back legs were the wrong way round, so I knew it was no good trying to save it, but I couldn't bring myself to finish it off. I had to kill a pigeon once which one of my cats was plucking whilst still alive.[:'(] But I thought the rabbit would be more difficult, so I lifted him up and put him on the bank with a brick to stop him slipping down into the road again. Now I'm worrying that he will find the strength to struggle and slip down anyway!!

I hope a fox finds him soon. Poor little creature.

Jude




buttington -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (10/4/2008 5:57:00 PM)

Barbara, I was visiting some old posts when I found this which you posted back in June, before I had broadband. It's so cute.[:)]  Jude

http://www.riversongs.com/Flas/today.swf




Hope coach -> RE: Today I Feel "Gratitude Challenged...." (10/4/2008 7:50:26 PM)

Hello Jude and all Gratitude Family
Jude Thanks for reminding me of the ability to post links here I have not done much of that lately. I must be honest and say despite being able to find many gratitudes in my life I too feel challenged today despite having a wonderful wisp of God's grace and helping me help the one woman who came to the Relaxation group and she really broke down and cleansed a lot of anxiety re:losses in her life I really wound up more Hope coach however she gave as she confirmed what God placed in my heart and head that health care workers have great need and I will market this to them...In my personal life I am gratitude challenged re: finances and employable me! So I have begun a prayer request campaign and I too am turning these anxious feelings over. It seems as always in my life when things become risky or I may need to lean on others they cannot take this My grandaughter informs me she cannot live with me ( she"s 18 of course she wants to experience her independence) and my husband has informed me he cannot live with me and I should look at myself I have and discovered I probably need to be with a man who can emotionally give me  a little more support. I am taking the middle path and allowing them to find their own paths without any resistance from me. However, I can see Eric Ericksons stages of middle life at work here and although I do not like it I am really on the mark with facing life will one day be a journey of one, mine, spouses leave or die, children and grandchildren move forward and leave ,it is so important to have my primary relationship with God and know that is the timesless, borderless, universe encompassing  spiritual relationship. All of a sudden I am very grateful. Grateful that we as a gratitude family cross borders, space and spirit. I'm grateful for you Jude and all others here. P.S while family keep telling me they need to leave no one does they may at some point but they are not yet! I get this and I need to stay on track
Namste
Barbara T




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